📚 node [[dej]]






  • [[jonathan]] busy, lots to read for the masters
    • now in the gallery scene ;)
  • [[armengol]] also busy, probably need a break
    • [[workaholic mode]]
    • sometimes feels like he's "lost the ability to have fun"
    • [[2h30m]] away from [[barcelona]]
    • when he goes he ends up meetings lots of people in a cluster/sequence
    • (reminded me of my visits to buenos aires)
    • when you're working too much, it's easy to become less efficience/diverge
    • exploratory mode?
  • [[topics]]
    • [[jonathan]] is there a simple way to get a git repository of markdown notes?
      • [[flancian]] [[kaleido]] is looking nice!
      • [[reading alexander]] repository could be an experiment
        • [[two modes]] at least:
          • conversation mode
          • [[do]]
        • nice thing about [[etherpad]] in an activity yesterday is that it can be ephemeral; it can be unstructured; it can have structure
    • ui / ux experiments
    • [[roadmap]]
    • [[push]] [[do]]
      • incorporate reading alexander into the agora
    • [[armengol]] how did you manage taking notes for [[reading alexander]]?
      • [[jonathan]] mostly on paper; tried transferring later but couldn't make the time





  • [[2021-05-22]]

    • still want to write NoTSoF

      • make for a pattern language FIRST
    • intention to merge our notes once we've made them

    • for reading group on wednesday wanted to choose patterns

      • use repository
    • TO Dos

      • summary of introduction of Pattern Language
      • start brainstorming list for glossary of terms fo NoTSoF (or more general [[Christopher Alexander]]), write these into the [[Agora]]
    • them telling me some things from their last conversation

      • regarding information and context
        • how to understand what others understand, as regards context
        • how to see if we are on the same page
        • sometimes one spends a lot of time of doing things, but one doesn't realize one is not using the same concepts/ideas for a given term
        • how to determine a minimum set of concepts/tools to check understanding -> a "conceptual context"
        • what can a "minimum denominator" be in understanding that can be a common ground / context
        • how to deal with context question
          • including passing a text, passing materials to share one's own context
          • procedures to assemble a context
          • procedures to check if we have the same context
            • e.g. in the agora, pooling materials around a node
    • building bridges between conventions rather than

    • the exercise we are doing is about assembling different points of view on a single given topic

  • [[2021-04-24]]

    • Topic one: moving/experimenting towards a shared digital garden?
      • D: there are two things to distinguish

        • shared garden for sharing notes
        • discussion/threading/chat space
      • J: let's focus on the shared notes thing first


  • [[2021-04-03]]

  • [[2021-06-03]]

  • [[2021-02-14]]

    • How we relate to [[information]]
    • Thought connection to [[Christopher Alexander]]: systems that allow open-ended organic evolution
    • ample -- seperation/distinction between [[modeling]] and [[coding]]
      • how to get people to communicate what they need
    • m prime
    • protopian themes will always lead to the word "good"
      • thinking of it as a "free variable"

      • ethics as fundmental thing to consider

        • always need to incorporate when we think/speak about how a system "should be"
        • lyotard
      • Daniel's (short-) story:

        • an overall theme to place here at the start: the back and forth interplay between technology and society
        • a short choronology
          • began studying mulimedia engineering, was attracted to playing with tech
          • first study program was a mix of computer science and design, but felt like a frankenstein program
          • he moved to a design university to continue his study path
            • electronic art and digital design
          • got involved in touch-pad table project
          • this lead to being part of starting an UX design studio
          • in context of various projects became more interested the way people were interacting with digital projects/objects rather than on the content of those projects/objects
          • moved more into art
          • art was inspiring him and wanted to also inspire others
          • developed his own form of artistic practice
          • stopped working for brands
          • moved to the woods with a friend (call them X); X has more tech skill than D
          • together they started prototyping
            • D more on the research part
            • X on the tech part
          • D did a bootcamp to learn more of the tech tools
          • bounced back though to thinking more about the tools / human / interaction (??) side
          • trying to find balance
      • D: comment about how

        • artists "can do whatever they want"
          • society "accepts" this
          • D wants to have this freedom; doens't want to be an artist as a "job" or "unique role"
        • use of artistic techniques / practices as a medium
          • doing experiments
            • is "playting", but in the adult context
          • exploring and sharing without restrictions
          • social space of creation
        • E: association with "carneval"
          • Art as a bargain
          • being "decoupled" from society ?
        • E: wants [[revolution]], not carneval
      • D: if he had to use a label (which he doesn't like), it would be that he works with "concepts" ("conceptual artist")

      • using art as a lens, a way of seeing

      • D: many people are asking similar questions to the ones we are asking/discussing

      • E: how to also enable new connection making ?

        • and how can groups have conversations among themselves (between groups)
      • E: info com

      • E: interested in the spectrum between writing with natural languages and programming

      • D: broad current interest: information and the digital context

        • what are structurings of information that make it useful to me and others?
      • E: "[[Context]]" is a key concept

        • key problem in CS and [[information theory]]: the question of "state"
        • a way to think of context:
          • an intersection of [[world model]]s (e.g. between communicating parties), together with
          • [[transformations]] (i.e. ones we do in our minds), such as
            • when translating terms in one's mind when someone else is speaking
            • tracing paths of thinking (??)
            • knowing who one is speaking/listening to and interpreting in this context
        • some things are able to be externalized as technical tools
          • if they are modularizable and can have an "interface" to interact and link up with
        • some things are somehow so entangled and enmeshed that it seems impossible to seperate them out from what happens in the mind and externalize them
⥅ node [[armengol-lorand]] pulled by user

Armengol Lorand


⥅ node [[armengolaltayo]] pulled by user




  • [[armengol]]
    • empezó un grado en filosofía!
    • en primer año






  • Terrible [[hiato]]. Mi responsabilidad.
  • Por [[telegram]].
  • Colaboración -- de lo [[colectivo]] a lo [[individual]].
    • [[bots]] de integración entre chat/redes sociales y el [[agora]]
    • [[push]] [[stoa]]
    • [[push]] [[dendron]]
      • [[estructura jerárquica]] :(
        • Daniel no está de acuerdo.
        • Es una decisión impuesta; es una perspectiva válida pero elimina muchas posibilidades.
        • Yo estoy de acuerdo con Daniel a priori (no lo usé)
      • paralelo: [[metáfora del escritorio]] en computadoras personales
        • útil en su momento
        • pero limita el tipo de organización posible. ejemplo: un archivo es un objeto físico dentro de la metáfora, por lo que sólo puede estar en un solo lugar a la vez.
      • En oposición con [[dendron]], [[foam]] o cualquier wiki no estructurado se basa en punteros en cualquier dirección y a cualquier nivel.
      • [[heterarchy]]
  • [[startupy]]
  • [[wefindx]]
  • Relaciones con la información
    • sincronicidad y asincronicidad
    • comunidades pequeñas y grandes
    • [[fomo]]
    • [[resets]]
      • interesante porque esto es como una sincronicidad diferida, yo sentí exactamente lo mismo.
    • [[topic]] [[systems to manage information overload]] and [[onboard]] or [[offboard]] from conversations
    • experiencia: cenas con amigos con un tema que articulaba la conversación.
      • el tema usualmente era un [[proyecto]] presentado por alguien.
      • el [[feedback]] del grupo representaba valor para el presentador por defecto, lo que hacía que el proyecto fuera divertido.
    • [[topic]] cuál es la dinámica deseada para las conversaciones en el [[agora]]?


  • Por [[telegram]].
  • Traducción de nodos. Operaciones entre nodos; reminiscente de entornos para programación visual.
  • Enfoque que prioriza el uso individual.
    • Daniel también piensa que conviene apostar por propuestas que construyen socialmente sobre una base individual que ya aporta utilidad.
  • [[Markdown]] como formato
    • Block references
    • Daniel piensa en un archivo de Markdown por bloque
    • Transclusiones permiten consolidar en textos más largos
    • -> [[dendron]]
  • Sobre la moralidad de incluir jardines de alrededor de internet si la licencia es compatible
    • Si la intención de compartir/ser abierto es explícita no parece problemático
    • Pero parece más valioso usar los repositorios para acercarse a esa gente, que podría estar interesada
    • Módulos de traducción (como [[roam2agora]]) deberían ser programados por cualquier usuario


  • Background:
  • [[2018]] punto de quiebre: realización sobre cómo el diseño de las tecnonologías que usamos día a día tiene una carga ideológica e impacto en la sociedad.
    • Uno no diseña sólo dispositivos o interfaces, sino comportamientos.
    • Q: Tristan Harris. Valoración?
    • A: Vector. Parte mediática es 10. La narrativa de "social dilemma" se basa en la distopia, busca generar miedo. Las respuestas a "qué podemos hacer" son triviales o vacuas.
    • Propuesta: un sistema de ruteo que lleva a la gente de "quiero hacer algo al respecto" a "esta es una lista de cosas que podés hacer dados tus recursos y características".
  • Uno de los temas que más le interesan: cómo describir un sistema de influencias.
    • Modelo: inputs, processing, outputs.
    • En modelos colectivos, input-output es social en un ciclo de influencias mutuas.
    • Q: memes.
    • Q: espacios.
    • Manipulación de influencias: redirección de inputs/outputs con entendimiento del sistema.
    • Q: ética pública.
    • El punto de quiebre tuvo que ver con esto.
    • En común: visión utópica. Pero el resultado puede ser negativo para otros aunque la intención sea positiva.
    • Q: figura de Sócrates.
    • Q: Jonathan.
  • Branch: governancia
    • [[xavivives]] trabaja en un proyecto: [[vocdoni]]. Un sistema de votación decentralizada.
    • Q: [[exuo]]
  • [[Agora]]
    • [[vewpoint]]: [[mind map]] + [[world model]].
      • Realidad privada y realidad compartida.
      • Q: [[hypothes.is]]
      • Universos paralelos. Todos los grafos existen en planos paralelos; interactúan a través de actos comunicativos trasversales.
      • Podría buscarse la centralización, consenso. Pero esto genera fragmentación.
      • El individuo es el caso base.
      • Q: [[digital garden]] vs [[stoa]] vs [[agora]]
    • Explícito vs implícito
      • Lo implícito está optimizado para contextos físicos, tradicionales.
      • Q: anti-polarización.
      • Escala de valores explícita.
      • Q: ética abierta.
  • Falta cohesión en muchos proyectos porque no está la base ética abierta.
    • Q: Protocolo.
    • El problema de la coordinación.
  • [[origin story]] relacionado con [[sapiens]].
  • [[money]]
  • [[the expanding circle]].
  • improve [[effective altruism]] node.
  • La tecnología es un multiplicador; amplifica nuestro potencial.
  • Cómo conectar con las personas adecuadas, generar interés, masa crítica?
  • [[Agora]] strategy
    • Una: atacar un nicho, gente que está interesada en [[knowledge graph]]s.
    • Otra: público más general.
    • Q: Bootstrap?
      • Nodos de comentario sobre cualquier URL.
      • Acciones.
      • [[wikilink]]s en todos lados.
    • Ejemplo: [[tiktok]]. Poder utilizar la música de un cantante popular. Esa pieza de funcionalidad atrae público.
    • En [[vewpoint]]: [[the-hyperlink-delusion]]. Si entendemos la web como piezas de información que están conectadas entre ellas.
    • [[wikilink]] + [[bidirectional links]]
    • Q: [[hypothes.is]]
    • [[vewpoint]]: sabía que había que colaborar con la web existente. Cuando uno twittea, una extensión podría indexar ese tweet en una red externa. Y los go links podrían agregar un nivel de indirección en el otro sentido.


⥅ node [[flancian]] pulled by user

Ahoy there!

I'm [[flancian]], meaning [[https://anagora.org/flancian]] .

I'm happy to be here!


  • A [[person]].
  • The creator and maintainer of their [[Agora]].

[https://anagora.org/flancian flancian in the agora]



frame of flancian's agora page

⥅ node [[jonathan-the-utopian]] pulled by user

Jonathan the Utopian


  • proposal
    • 5 minutes each at the beginning giving a summary of how we're doing
    • 5 minutes to plan how we'll use the rest of the time, total 1h
  • [[lorand]]
    • feeling tired today, but working at home all day. under [[time pressure]].
    • learning a subject to prepare a lecture on it.
      • [[q]] which subject?
      • [[q]] is it ok to write this here?
    • readings for the masters are nice but intensive
    • zoom calls yesterday heavy: 3h in the morning, 3h in the afternoon
    • spent some time with colleagues in the evening, not many chances to socialize
    • signed up for a workshop in [[france]]
      • [[q]] which topic?
    • looking forward to [[june]]
      • would like to get back in touch with project
      • hesitant to see people yet though
      • trying to focus on diet and sport
      • digital note taking, would like to set up a digital garden plus rendering beyond obsidian
  • [[topics]]
  • [[flancia collective]]



  • [[presentation]] [[mtr master konzept v2021 02 21]]
    • Want feedback on their impressions. Which images, thoughts they receive when the presentation takes place.
    • Any red flags/warnings/concerns we should think about?
    • Suggestions, materials, ideas that could help.
  • [[run 0]]
  • overall
    • there could have been a bit more meta: go over the structure of the presentation in 30s-60s at the beginning, so the audience knows what to expect.








  • Jonathan thinks [[utopoi]] is not persistent; it will live for a while and then die, like an organism. But this applies mostly to the physical part; the digital part might endure.
  • Knowing it has an end date actually feels nice.
  • [[wittgenstein]]
    • likes that he critized his own work -- I agree.
    • part of his later work is about [[deconstructing]] his earlier work.


  • "philosophy is the art of making questions enjoyable"
  • pros/cons
  • "feeling like a mashed potato"
  • work is getting stressful due to an online course coming up in January.


📖 stoas
⥱ context