- Beautiful!
Fellowship of the Link
- a [[meeting]].
- Attending: [[x]], [[y]]
- Start recording, we're currently using Jitsi and that works best with a [[Chromium]] based browser.
-
Threads from last time we would like to pick up:
- [[high leverage opportunities]] we can spot
-
[[generative commons]]
- [[generative linking]] (inferring links)
- [[general commons agreement]] https://bra.in/8qeNWy
- [[wishlist]] approach to worldbuilding
-
[[Jerry Michalski]] let's discuss: note sharing.
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] let's discuss conventions? Added something in [[massive wiki]].
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] would like to generalize the archiving tool / link card generator he's been working on.
- [[Flancian]] would like to discuss [[Interwiki]] links and the [[common hub]] approach for search and entity resolution
- [[SJ]] wants to discuss / address this at hacking days at Wikimania in August (you're all invited to Singapore ;) https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Wikimania
-
#push [[fotl threads]]
-
define:
- [[wiki]] / root URL
- /now
-
[[issue tracker]] / [[project tracker]] URL
- [[github]] by default?
-
define:
[[2023-12-06]]
- Attending: [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Bentley]] [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Flancian]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Michael Grossman]]
-
Checkins
- Health issues galore
-
[[poop bank]] idea
- on transporting biomes
-
[[against the grain]]: a book
- [[cooked]] and [[uncooked]] people
-
[[age old divide]]: [[city]] vs [[countryside]]
- [[murray bookchin]]
- on sarcastic vs earnest AIs
-
What's on our minds?
- [[AIs]] as per the above
-
[[Publishing industry]] woes
-
#JM on [[April]]'s experience: most publishers are picking top 2-3 books to advertise/market and not marketing the others at all
- she participated in ~100 podcasts.
- [[book]]: https://fluxmindset.com
-
#JM on [[April]]'s experience: most publishers are picking top 2-3 books to advertise/market and not marketing the others at all
-
[[Neobook]]:
- #JM [[Books]] are rollups of [[nuggets]]
-
#CA which licensing are you putting on the books you're writing?
- #JM CC0 is the default
- #CA are you aware of [[OER]]: [[Open Educational Resources]]?
-
[[neobooks]]:
-
[[design from trust]]:
- https://wiki.openglobalmind.com/projects/jerry's_nuggets/dft_book_contents_(the_toc)
- https://link.agor.ai/nuggets-are-really-powerful is interesting
- on [[types]] of [[nuggets]] and their [[outputs]]
- and three-four more :)
- #CA on [[webmentions]] as a framework for communicating derivative work -- on getting [[linkbacks]]
- [[flancian]] [[webfinger]] for communicating about users/authors and [[webmentions]] for communicating about [[nuggets]]?
- #CA [[marginalia]] using [[indieweb]]: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog
- #JM https://www.workings.tools/p/wonkish-obsidian-footnotes-as-sidenotes
- #CA [[the great conversation]]: "the reason you want to read Aristotle and Plato is that they started a conversation we're still having thousands of years later".
- #CA https://mitpressonpubpub.mitpress.mit.edu/pub/syyor4ra/release/1#commentary-and-the-talmud as an exam
-
[[design from trust]]:
- [[Agora]] + [[December Adventure]] updates
[[2023-11-29]]
- Attending: [[Peter Kaminski]] [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Flancian]]
-
[[Peter Kaminski]]
- Teaching AI to people.
-
Got back into [[NFTs]].
- Platform for AI art.
-
[[Midjourney]] art.
- Some of it rises into fine art territory.
- [[Thessos]] [[hic et nunc]] [[thea]]
-
[[question for this group]]
- looking for a new [[mastodon]] server
- [[flancian]] likes social.coop :D
-
[[chris aldrich]] have you considered building [[activitypub]] into [[massive wiki]]?
-
[[pk]] some concerns with how AP works as a protocol, how the community innovates
- [[nostr]] seems more promising community wise maybe
- [[aram zucker-scharff]] interesting; I like the protocol but never felt like they had any community development
- [[pk]] likes the [[NIP]]s
- [[activitypub]] is more traditional governance wise
- [[azs]] interesting, from my perspective it seems like the opposite! take e.g. [[pixelhub]] doing independent development of [[ap]]
- [[ca]] https://phanpy.social/#/universeodon.com/s/111478703259005044?view=full
- [[ca]] wordpress is working on being [[activitypub]] compatible
- [[peter kaminski]] [[ghost]] with [[activitypub]] seems really nice
- [[flancian]] it seems like it is near mainstream.
- [[azs]] it seems like it's winning for the 'event feed' space
- [[bluesky]] as compared to [[activitypub]] and [[nostr]]
-
[[pk]] some concerns with how AP works as a protocol, how the community innovates
-
on the pitfalls of being in a small [[mastodon]] instance
- you don't know what you don't know: you'll only see very few hashtags
-
on the fragmentation of the fediverse due to no platform supporting all content types/activities
- [[mastodon]]
- [[pixelfed]]
- [[peertube]]
- [[write freely]]
-
on what [[wordpress]] managed to pull off
- [[automattic]]
- on the [[tumblr]] [[activitypub]] promise
-
[[ca]]
-
[[micro.blog]] is a good social reader for reading blogs, mastodon, etc.
- Here's the reader version of my website in micro.blog: https://micro.blog/chrisaldrich@boffosocko.com
- I'm thinking some of the problems of supporting all the things are related to [[Ross Ashby]]'s law of requisite variety: https://www.edge.org/response-detail/27150
-
[[micro.blog]] is a good social reader for reading blogs, mastodon, etc.
- on [[adaptive interfaces]]
- [[factr]]
-
[[sweetcron]] https://code.google.com/archive/p/sweetcron/
- something like this should exist but it doesn't seem like it currently does?
- [[flancian]] on the idea of the [[signup router]] and integrating activitypub streams onto a higher level 'person' (or circle?) entity
-
[[ca]] I think all the variations of cross-posting and their directionality are documented here: https://indieweb.org/cross-posting
- Dec 16-17 [[indieweb camp]] in person: https://indieweb.org/2023/SD
[[2023-11-08]]
-
Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Peter Kaminski]], [[Chris Aldrich]], [[Michael Grossman]]
- GPTs new feature from open AI
-
https://openai.com/blog/introducing-gpts
- Aram: Potentially helping out on licencing.
-
Alternative being worked on - https://poe.com/login
- Can be monitized.
- OpenAI is crap at billing and that makes accessing new features that are gated behind a payment level hard.
- https://questy.ai/
-
AI Entrepreneurship
- https://myhub.ai/
- Thinking about how to start stuff up around AI and how they can get marketing and startup help.
- Special interest group of AI entrepreneurs.
- What do we do with large language models and the brain?
- [[AI + Knowledge Graphs]]
-
#push [[TheClimateWeb]]
- Climate Change materials and research in the Brain app - a commercial product.
- http://www.theclimateweb.com/
-
Climate
- Chris: Interesting look at some of the problems around informing people and the history here in [[The Parrot and the Igloo: Climate and the Science of Denial]] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56769547-the-parrot-and-the-igloo?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=WHye3QAKxt&rank=1
- Also check out [[Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming]]
- Peter: von Humboldt's observation re:climate is ca. 1819. https://blog.biodiversitylibrary.org/2020/10/alexander-von-humboldt.html#:~:text=It%20was%20also%20in%20Cumana,climate%20change%20and%20destroy%20ecosystems
-
Aram: Some explainers I found on this that were pretty good - https://context.center/topics/climate-change/#explainers
- And a collection on dealing with misinformation - https://context.center/topics/misinformation/#dealing-with-misinformation
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol
- https://www.versobooks.com/products/2649-how-to-blow-up-a-pipeline
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkey_Wrench_Gang
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Attali
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
- Good on blair mountain - https://youtu.be/CGGWcFArufA?si=dFZH_Y1ngppfvTWR
- https://www.gawker.com/politics/the-joe-manchin-trolley-problem
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism_(historical_analysis)
[[2023-10-18]]
-
Attending: [[Chris Aldrich]] [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Peter Kaminski]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Bentley Davis]], [[Eduardo Ivanec]]
-
Possible projects
- [[social rerere]]
-
[[knowledge commons]] extension for [[obsidian]], [[vscode]]
- lets you hook up vaults/repos with e.g. [[massive wiki]], [[agora]], other projects in this space.
- [[plugins]] are the way to go
- [[chris aldrich]] if you can put together something that solves 'publishing' for free (obsidian sync-like)
-
We had a 'split community' situation today because of Jitsi + Meet
- We'll be converging onto Zoom from now on for a few iterations as Jitsi is not working great sometimes, and Meet doesn't support recordings
- Expect the link to be:
-
More on sync
- [[synthing]] works quite well with obsidian, and is non-tech-user-friendly
-
[[neobooks]] next week
- on transclusion: https://prosefusion.cloud/git_and_github_notes/pete's_git_tips_and_tricks/git_tips_and_tricks
- looking forward to write!
-
Possible projects
[[2023-10-11]]
-
Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Flancian]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Peter Kaminski]], [[Samuel Klein]]
-
context.center has gotten hooked up successfully with the Agora!
- differences with linebreak interpretations
- Interesting to see a paywalled personal wiki - https://wiki.nikiv.dev/web/search-engines
- B/c Agora is not looking at JSON it doesn't pull in the archived articles, but that's ok it prob shouldn't.
-
discussing #PAIN ~ [[public ai network]] ~ https://publicai.network/
- (missed the beginning)
-
[[metasj]] mix of closed and open models
- half of the project is to create a shared vocabulary; half is putting together the community (incl. public institutions) to build a commons
- national models -- e.g. gpt-sw3
- [[aram zucker-scharff]] hadn't heard of these national models/sweden case, would love to read more about that
- [[pk]] + [[metasj]] https://www.ai.se/en/node/81535/gpt-sw3
- [[aram zucker-scharff]] on the potential of public data loss
-
what else do we want to take on today?
- [[flancian]] [[neobooks]]
- extending the [[102 great ideas]] project and other friendly-parasitical (symbiotic) projects
-
or extending [[pattern language]]
- [[metasj]] [[patternity test]] https://wiki.c2.com/?PatternityTest
- [[Adler]] | [[Alexander]] | [[Gunkel]]
-
[[dewey system]] for pattern languages?
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Decimal_Classification replaces it?
-
[[metasj]]
- there's an initiative to normalize the UDC and have it replace the DDS in the US
- even people at WorldCat are thinking about it (and they're not particularly bias-free)
- [[bruck fikru]]
- [[jerry michalski]] what about the decolonizing version of [[102 great ideas]]
- [[peter kaminski]] current LLM corpuses are large but not very inclusive of libraries
-
are people working towards getting national libraries into LLMs?
- a lot of things are not yet scanned
- which proportion made it already?
- on the titanic battle brewing over copyright/ip
- see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_Wars_(film)
-
on the legal battles that are coming
-
[[pk]] think they might peter out / be settled in private
- on the possible outcome being [[pay to play]] / [[open ai]] pulling the ladder (and complaining while they do it)
- [[mistral]]
- [[brainstorming]] [[open letters]] ;)
-
[[pk]] think they might peter out / be settled in private
-
context.center has gotten hooked up successfully with the Agora!
[[2023-09-27]]
- Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Flancian]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Chris Aldrich]]
-
On traffic controllers and Reagan
- Ongoing strikes: writers, actors. There is high public approval for these.
- On the sustainability of the GOP being anti-labour.
- How did the republicans end up being middle-america/"popular" and the democrats end up being "intellectual"?
- What about some new parties for a change ;)
- [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] https://twitter.com/bcmerchant/status/1706898148692762627 - discussion about luddism in hackernews
- On coopting the language of labour.
- [[the making of donald trump]] mentions [[4000 lawsuits]].
-
[[Jerry Michalski]] on the weird hybrid of [[obamacare]] and the so called [[death panels]]
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_panel
- do we need a 'media drumbeat' to push back against this kind of thing?
- where?
-
on the take "[[podcasts]] have become right wing media"
- content policies are harder to enforce in audio land as it's easy to distribute (unlike video) and not too easy to parse/consume/detect (unlike text) (for now?).
-
[[vtaiwan]]
- to reduce flamewars, they removed the reply feature (!)
- [[chris aldrich]] on newspapers removing comments sections -- and their history.
-
[[aram]] actually users are still really engaged with comments sections -- the reason that most publishers took them down was the moderation burden
- comments-to-article pipelines were working quite well when they were being run
-
[[flancian]] on the [[moderation commons]]
- on quote tweets
- an ongoing proposal: generalizing fediblock
-
[[jerry michalski]]
- early aol forums
- name recognition of forum handles
-
[[aram zucker-scharff]]
-
on different approaches to comments
- [[indieweb]]: you don't have normal replies to a post, you have to create a new post and link it to what you're commenting on
- [[twitter]] and quote tweets
- [[activitypub]] and [[mastodon]] design decisions (in particular not supporting)
-
on different approaches to comments
-
[[neobooks]]
- one of Jerry's collaborators uses google docs instead of obsidian
- [[chris aldrich]] how do you leave signposts to see resources elsewhere? e.g. in wikipedia, in an agora, etc.
- [[jerry michalski]] maintains a neighborhood visibility aspect in his brain
- [[chris aldrich]] [[zettelkasten]] has this in the sense of always having physical neighbors to the current index card
- [[102 great ideas]] https://boffosocko.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/102-Ideas.jpg
- [[great books of the western world]] https://books.google.com/books?id=p0gEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA92&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false
-
on feeding the [[noosphere]]
- is it a good term?
- Check ins
-
Shared projects
-
#push [[fotl projects]]
- [[intertwingle]] our notes together
- write [[neobooks]]
-
#push [[fotl projects]]
[[2023-09-20]]
-
Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Flancian]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Peter Kaminski]]
-
Check ins
- [[Jerry Michalski]] would be interested in being hired for more presentations/speeches
-
[[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] on [[Cyborgness]] - video cued to the specific part of the discusion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvYcunuF3Eo&t=1709s
- On babies reaching into ipads
- [[digital retinas]]
-
Useful open source video editing with
- [[OpenShot]] - https://www.openshot.org/
- avidemux
- Drop into Quicktime
-
[[flancian]] presentation (maybe): https://anagora.org/go/agora-slides
-
three facets
-
a space - the definition of an agora the one best known
- public, mostly virtual, but has semi public sub-spaces (stoas). Different groups met in the different spaces and allowed people to join in and be part of something.
- Go beyond the commons concern of the market
-
A distributed knowledge graph
- Give it a list or repositories or resources and the agora will try to mash them together, find connections, find patterns, connect them.
-
A social network
- an integration between social graphs and knowledge graphs and hopefully will make it part of the fediverse and t/f give it a clearer part of the social network concept.
-
a space - the definition of an agora the one best known
-
Both a vision and a hypothesis
- pro-social subsets of the internet would benefit from wide availability of a free [[interlay]] (as in the [[underlay project]]) provisioned and governed by a community as a commons.
- For the common good.
- Follow the principles of a commons.
- Develop tools and instructions to make it more likely that such a connective layer arrises with these characteristics.
- The agora is not good enough yet to be the connective layer but aims to be a bootstrap.
- Note taking, wiki building, web annotating, communities, seem to have unique opportunity at hand. Possible to self-organize in cooperative groups and set up ways to federate within a commons.
- Find common patterns and exploit them using the system where we can.
-
Design principles
- Simple as possible
- Leverage existing conventions and formats
- bootstrap and build better ones from the bootstrap
-
Key characteristics
- free software enabling a community to provision a basic knowledge commons
- requires little of would be integrators and give back generously to participating communities.
- inclusive and makes use of existing conventions, formats, tools, and networks for as long as practical.
-
Architecture
-
Agora Bridge
- Software
- User repositories
- Social media
- ...
- Imports users' repositories every 30s and handles them. Usually git. Takes MassiveWiki and Social Media
-
Agora root repository
- List of repositories
- Configuration and bootstrap procedures
- Base content
-
Agora Server
- Software
- Web interface
- Interlink procedures
- Accessed by browser
- Python and Flask server
- Points to a root repository and with those resources attempt to find the patterns and pull out nodes which then get served to the user.
- May present notes on the same node by different users across different contexts.
-
Agora Bridge
-
Node
- High level entity
- Location on the knowledge graph
- Can hold information from multiple users and join different files
- Node can have Subnodes by different authors.
- Links in Nodes will be seen and link those nodes together at the Agora level.
- Nodes are social
- See anagora.org/nodes for visualization
-
Common patterns:
- [[Digital Garden Note]]
- [[Blog Post]]
- [[Personal Wiki Page]]
- [[Journal]]
- [[Node Club]]
-
You can agree on a slice for a concept and then right away start coordinating - exactly like using a hashtag
- Socail media works with hashtags to integrate into this concept.
- Agora lets you hashtag anywhere
-
Stoas
- Social too
- Locaitons that act as semi public spaces
- Set up a hedge doc that is totally anonymous.
- Will get processed into the Angora within 30 sec.
- Etherpad and Jitsi both can get pulled in to a Stoas.
- Heavily uses iFrames whenever possible
- Default empty pages are a call to action
-
How to join!
- Take notes in your fav tool
- Publish in platform - usually git.
- Let an Agora maintainer know about it.
-
Wikilinks everywhere
- Edges are [[wikilinks]] which refer to other nodes as found in volunteered subnodes
- Idea of composing notes
-
three facets
[[2023-09-06]]
- Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Chris Aldrich]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[David Pickrell]], [[Flancian]], [[Michael Grossman]]
-
Introductions
-
[[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
- Lead engineering for years on [[Pressforward]]
- tool making experience as it interacts with the indyweb
- current project: how we link note tools together. personally using [[eleventy]] based [[context.center]]
-
[[Flancian]]
- welcome [[David]]!
- SRE by profession here, knowledge commons/graphs tinkerer by hobby :)
- [[agora]] ~ https://anagora.org is my main project in this space
-
[[Michael Grossman]]
- designer - editor - archivist - activist
- interested in [[information meritocracy]]
- working on a platform named [[factor]]
- hanging out in [[ogm]] for a while
- https://factr.com
- https://collaborative.tech
-
worked in magazines previously
- maybe the [[20th century]] was the [[magazine century]] -- there weren't many before then, and it looks like there won't be many after it
-
[[David Pickrell]]
- itinerant "software salesman" :)
- focused on helping people solve problems with software
-
one pitch for the group: son-in-law works on book.io which is a publishing environment that tries to empower authors
- unique covers for each of the books (NFT space, in the cardano chain)
- they release unique digital books at 20-30 USD a piece
- moving to do audio
- long time [[brain]] user
-
[[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
-
What's on people's minds?
-
[[Michael Grossman]] curious to ask David about book.io -- there are public domain works with many covers, how does that work?
- artists working with GenAI
-
[[Jerry Michalski]] is book.io a scarcity play or a publisher which is trying to be useful to creators?
- it tries to be the second
- targets mostly self-publishing authors currently
- every time a book gets resold, the author gets a percentage
-
[[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
- write professionally, would like to use editors more, and would not like to use them for free.
- would like to use such a platform to give participating editors a cut of produced works.
-
[[Chris Aldrich]]
-
reviewed some books in book.io
- there is no translator information for translations of public domain books, e.g. [[anna karenina]]
-
reviewed some books in book.io
-
[[Michael Grossman]] curious to ask David about book.io -- there are public domain works with many covers, how does that work?
-
Presentation on the Agora?
- 20th of September -- the date is set! :D
-
Fediverse and Agora integration in the works
- note taking in the fediverse: exploring this space
-
[[AZS]] don't know anything in this space.
- obsidian can push to the agora, then the agora can provide activitypub services
- [[Chris Aldrich]] there is potential for UI innovation in this space, something beyond streams
- wikilinks everywhere :D
-
[[does chatgpt obsolete notetaking]]
-
[[AZS]] typical AI-disruption-take.
- These are tools for thinking and not just for ingestion.
- our computers/mobile phones already turn us into cyborgs; AI just adds another layer to this
- human intervention is what gives these things/outputs a value
-
[[CA]] note taking is a ratchet
-
"chat-gpt, build me something like the ethereum network to distribute books"
- we're not anywhere near there yet.
- "what is the next thing", in the sense of Einstein in 1904, is not something that this level of AI can solve.
- [[JM]] unclear on whether LLMs can only regurgigate known things or can actually improve on them -- compare with e.g. alphago coming up with novel moves
-
"chat-gpt, build me something like the ethereum network to distribute books"
-
[[Michael Grossman]] podcast: https://a16z.simplecast.com/episodes/a-true-second-brain-xrODaBD2
- on [[Nat Eliason]]
- being able to take notes over years and put them into a model which you can then query/search
- a certain type of note taking will be much more useful than in the old days
- surfacing the note that somebody you trust has shared with you is what's golden
-
[[Jerry Michalski]] when Google came out, we outsourced our memories to Google
- proponent of humans-in-the-loop
- [[AZS]] [[technology is a tool, not an outcome]]
-
[[David Pickrell]] recording/transcription services you can add to meetings.
- using [[ChatGPT]] can help get a sense of material but might not help actually learn that material
- [[JM]] [[story threads]]
- [[AZS]] wikipedia is essentially the biggest collection of knowledge, yet people also get degrees
-
[[AZS]] typical AI-disruption-take.
- chat / link dump
[[2023-08-30]]
- Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Chris Aldrich]], [[Flancian]], [[Samuel Klein]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Michael Grossman]]
-
Check ins
-
[[Chris Aldrich]]
- Took the full July off and did a family cruise to Alaska :)
- Not as rainy as expected, gorgeous scenery
- Q: did you keep a journal/notebook?
- A: did, but haven't done anything with it yet
-
[[Jerry Michalski]] One question that came up in a recent conversation: now that AI is around, do we need to still bother to take notes/curate links? :)
- Yes :D
- [[Chris Aldrich]] AI as it is now is interesting but it lacks:
-
[[Flancian]]
-
Read [[Engelbart]] over the summer and it was very interested in the context of GenAI developments/this conversation
- https://social.coop/@flancian/110720124777315271
-
Augmenting Human Intellect: A Conceptual Framework By Douglas C. Engelbart October 1962
- https://via.hypothes.is/https://dougengelbart.org/content/view/138 (Copy with Hypothesis annotations)
-
Read [[Engelbart]] over the summer and it was very interested in the context of GenAI developments/this conversation
-
[[Samuel Klein]]
- [[e. e. kim]]]
- on the potential of [[marginalia]] and [[inter-linealia]] (?)
- Purple numbers: https://eekim.com/software/purple/purple.html
-
and the use of color maybe?
- culturally dependent
- #JM uses purple for opinions and yellow to call attention to things
-
-
Topics
[[2023-08-16]]
- Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Flancian]], [[V]], [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]], [[Michael Grossman]]
-
Check ins
-
Welcome [[V]]!
-
[[V]] loves federated systems, has been building those since the 2000s/2010s
- Neighbours with Jerry!
-
[[V]] loves federated systems, has been building those since the 2000s/2010s
-
[[Michael Grossman]]
- Doing well
- Thoughts on living on confiscated land
- [[Jerry Michalski]]
-
[[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
- On providing sources and timelines relevant to things
- As a way to reverse [[context collapse]] and how it relates to the goals of the fellowship
-
[[Flancian]]
- On the [[Agora]] as a prototype for "simply" federating ideas and definitions
- And precisely to push back against concept collapse and understand our points of contact and also of divergence
-
[[V]]
- This conversation reminds me of [[dialectics]]
- The Agora can be seen as a tool to enable dialectics (thesis antithesis synthesis) / help communities go through this process
-
[[Jerry Michalski]]
- [[argumentation theory]] maybe generalizes this
- other tools in the [[debate]] space
-
[[Flancian]] on agreeing on definitions and more generally on procedures to resolve definitions
- Maybe on defining a [[default commons]] as an advantage for a group that tries this
-
[[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
- The libertarian concept of finding an answer is what we get by default nowadays: different websites compete to provide the "best answer"
- But there is more than one answer to each problem based on context/expected use
- [[V]] on contextual ranking in the Agora: ranking results based on relevance for your social context
- Maybe thinking of [[positive opt-in community filter bubbles]]
-
[[Michael Grossman]]
- On delegating filtering to friends/communities as it relates to [[liquid democracy]]
- On [[owning your social graph]]
-
Welcome [[V]]!
-
on [[liquid democracy]] :)
- https://bra.in/9jYawA
- https://anagora.org/liquid-democracy
- [[colorado]] experiment
-
on its potential side effects:
- [[depolarization]]
- promoting higher dimensionality thinking
- promoting thinking about interesting problems in categories
- promoting thinking about relative expertise of individuals
-
[[Jerry Michalski]]
- on [[yelling louder]] "forcing the stack"
-
on [[darvo]]
-
[[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
- ah, this is just fascist politicking as defined in stuff like https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism
- [[small government]] usually means withdrawing support from causes
-
[[Aram Zucker-Scharff]]
-
[[Jerry Michalski]] on [[five minute universities]]
- lightning classes: 5 minutes for presenting, 5 minutes for questions, follow up conversation happens later
- video on [[the great transformation]]
- Jerry Michalski says: https://bra.in/2qa2BE
- Interested in making timelines with 11ty? [[Aram Zucker-Scharff]] is looking for testers of https://github.com/AramZS/timelinety based on https://web3isgoinggreat.com/
[[2023-08-09]]
- Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[Flancian]], [[Peter Kaminski]], [[Michael Grossman]]
-
[[climate change]]
- https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/08/02/southamerica-record-winter-heat-argentina-chile/
-
[[global citizenship]]
- prepare now to give climate refugees: an identity, a nationality, internet connection, internet services
- what does citizenship mean now and in the future?
- snow crash vs star trek
-
cory doctorow's [[walkaway]]
- also [[catalog of missing devices]]
- on modelling solutions to big problems
-
https://blogs.worldbank.org/dev4peace/how-many-years-do-refugees-stay-exile
-
on averages
- [[The End of Average]]: How We Succeed in a World That Values Sameness (2016)
- on (jet) fighter seats
- on the old belief that people used to live very little
-
on averages
-
on cancers :(
-
When did people start understanding what cancer was?
-
https://chat.openai.com/share/3d3e3f93-9449-420a-914f-bc27c4912a49
In the late 1850's, "Virchow was the first to correctly link the origin of cancers from otherwise normal cells, believing that cancer is caused by severe irritation in the tissues (the ‘chronic irritation theory’). Not all of his work was correct, however. He also proposed that cancer spreads around the body by the spread of the irritation in liquid form."
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5665122/)
-
https://chat.openai.com/share/3d3e3f93-9449-420a-914f-bc27c4912a49
-
When did people start understanding what cancer was?
- [[flancian]] progress on https://link.agor.ai -- ready for your perusal and/or joining :)
-
how do we take the outputs of all the calls we're in and do more with them?
- [[peter kaminski]] working on some automation for downloading e.g. zoom call logs
- Vincent (who?) is working in this space as well
- [[dogsheep]] and tools to help users get out of [[walled gardens]]
- [[peter kaminski]] some links to share and a question :)
- Stowe Boyd has gotten deep into [[Obsidian]]: https://medium.com/workings/more-on-tufte-style-sidenotes-db61d3d8dce0
| | Openness | How well does it play with other tools? How interoperable and customisable is it? | F/OSS. Use open standards. Has an API. Import/Export Allow 3rd party plugins. Available on all OSs, platforms. Supports structured data | | Note-making | How good is it as a note-making tool? | Good outliner (easy indent/outdent, reorder, fold/zoom...) Atomic note structure, block references. Zettlekasten support. | | Writing/Publishing | How good is it as a writing & publishing tool? | WYSIWYG, zen writing environment/design, editing feature set, seamless publishing system to Web, Social. | | Idea discovery | Does it help users organise and (re)discover relevant notes? | Backlinks, Good search, AI-driven content discovery | | User-friendliness | How easy is it to start benefiting from it, off the shelf? | New user can get started and get benefits without taking courses, reading 3 books and 23 blog posts, or installing a dozen plugins | | Power | How powerful, adaptable & configurable is it? | Lots of features, highly customisable, many plug-ins, queryable knowledge, etc. | | Multiplayer | Allows teamwork | Group-based collaboration: groups, permissions, workflows, version control, commenting, moderation... | | Help | Is it easy to find high-quality documentation and answers to common questions? | Well-organised onboarding, documentation & FAQ system. | | Community | Is there a supportive community around the tool | Helpful community, active 3rd party developers, etc. | | Cost | How expensive is the tool | Free, or at least a v. useful free version in a freemium model | | Data sovereignty | Who owns your data? | Your files on your PC. | 20:35 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:BlueSky protocol 20:35 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says:oops wrong paste Aram Zucker-Scharff says: https://kolektiva.social/about
20:36 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says: https://blueskyweb.xyz/blog/10-18-2022-the-at-protocol
20:37 me says: ctzn.one -- now down probably 20:37 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:Paul Frazee? 20:38 me says:yes: http://anagora.org/pfrazee
20:39 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says: https://paulfrazee.medium.com/back-to-basics-what-is-the-point-of-decentralization-a495123a1fd7
Aram Zucker-Scharff says: https://context.center/topics/cryptocurrency/#activity-pub
20:41 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:small note: I'm Twitter user # 509 Jerry Michalski says:when it was just an SMS service 😃 20:43 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says:😃 20:43 me says:Pleroma me says:Lemmy me says:Misskey? 20:44 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says: https://github.com/misskey-dev/misskey
Aram Zucker-Scharff says: https://twitter.com/Chronotope/status/1587511147137486848
20:45 me says:some interesting questions in this space: me says:1. what is the biggest overall activitypub instance? me says:2. what is the biggest which isn't mastodon based? 20:46 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:I think mastodon.social is the largest instance 20:46 me says:3. how large could a non-mastodon instance feasibly scale up to be currently? 20:46 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:advertising is the colonizing force of capitalism in internet spaces 20:47 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says:Like cohost.org is sort of pushing in that direction as well Aram Zucker-Scharff says: https://pinboard.in/ also sort of monetizes that way 20:48 me says: https://social.coop
20:48 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:guilds --> unions Jerry Michalski says:mutual aid --> cooperatives 20:50 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says:? https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4467218-travelling-brothers?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=wM2PoCC5zD&rank=12 ? 20:51 me says:anti disintermediation me says:crypto is a convoluted way to define a trust root (in most applications, it seems) me says:"what are the platforms and protocols that we will take for granted 100 years from now" me says:counter anti disintermediation 😉 me says:citation needed 😉 20:54 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:full title: Travelling Brothers: The Six Centuries' Road from Craft Fellowship to Trade Unionism (1979) Jerry Michalski says:A Collective Bargain: Unions, Organizing, and the Fight for Democracy (2020) ? 20:55 me says: flancia.org/mine/flanbook is a bit about this -- coopting the machinery of capitalism for the purpose of advancing the revolution 20:56 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:oooo! 20:56 me says:commons me says:enclosure of the commons == another manifestation of capitalist colonization 20:57 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:my notes from this call: https://bra.in/3pWnJo
20:58 Aram Zucker-Scharff Aram Zucker-Scharff says:Ah i was thinking of Fight Like Hell by Kim Kelly Aram Zucker-Scharff says:I'll read that! :walking:
2022-06-24
Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]] [[Chris Aldrich]] [[flancian]]
Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9aRBtTqLjw
Notes
-
Discussion of [[go links]]
- Demo in anagora.org :)
- [[go/fotl/chat]] and [[go/fellowship of the link/chat]] both now work
-
Time?
-
11am Pacific on Fridays?
- Could conflict with date nights in Europe :)
-
[[11am Pacific on Thursdays]]?
- Let's try this!
-
11am Pacific on Fridays?
-
[[shared resources]]
-
[[Chris Aldrich]] putting up something in the site
- add a go link :)
- here's what we're doing, here's where we're going, here is how to join
- let's use [[chat]] for coordinating
-
[[Chris Aldrich]] putting up something in the site
-
what's a high leverage topic for the three of us?
- [[Chris Aldrich]] what's pareto optimal/the 20% we could tackle first?
- [[Jerry Michalski]] has been working on a [[shared vision]]
- [[flancian]] [[2025]]
-
[[Jerry Michalski]]
- how to build a "webring" for meetings, documents about projects
-
[[obsidian]] with [[excalidraw]] done by a friend
- diagrams.net is also good
-
[[open global mind]] ~ [[ogm]]
- [[flotilla]] -> [[federation]]
- what do you see from the top of your mast?
- [[multi plane camera]]
- [[map of the future]] ~ [[mosaic]]
- [[flancian]] [[agora]] plus iframes for mvp of the above
-
[[Chris Aldrich]] standard based, using each item as a block
- [[oembed]]?
- tools tends to target one tool only, lots of duplication
-
[[activitypub]]
-
[[Chris Aldrich]] over designed it, over specified it, few people understand it completely
- [[aaron parecki]]
-
[[mastodon]] as the de facto standard rather than ActivityPub itself
- we can bridge to mastodon or pleroma, do not need to reimplement it
-
what about [[rss]]?
- [[Jerry Michalski]] does this not break transclusion?
- How can we prevent the unproductive RSS/Atom wars of the early blogosphere?
-
[[Chris Aldrich]] over designed it, over specified it, few people understand it completely
-
[[Jerry Michalski]] [[least common denominator]]
- problem or potential?
- [[tbl]] simplified [[sgml]] and made it break gracefully
- [[resiliency]]
-
[[cory doctorow]] on the [[tragedy of the commons]]
- [[modus operandi]] and [[throughput]] amazing
- [[Chris Aldrich]]: cory has a [[commonplace book]] essentially, see https://pluralistic.net/2021/01/13/two-decades/
- [[flancian]]
-
from chat unprocesssed
- Jerry Michalski dice:transclusion
- Chris Aldrich dice:How to create a Read Fork Write Merge Web?
2022-06-17
- Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[metasj]], [[Mathew Lowry]], [[flancian]]
- (joined late) (chat history)
- [[Jerry Michalski]] and [[mathew]] on [[medium]]
-
#push [[Mathew Lowry's chapter]] for [[pkg book]]
- https://mathewlowry.medium.com/from-personal-to-social-knowledge-graphs-a-vision-statement-draft-fc86ef4f7022
- outsourcing commenting to [[hypothesis]]
- [[web annotation standard]]
- [[activitypub]]
- [[activitypub]] to [[web annotation standard]] bridge?
- [[Jerry Michalski]] [[nuggets]] in the [[big fungus]]
- [[Mathew Lowry]] [[nuggets]] as cross-linked executive summaries
-
[[fediverse]]
- [[Jerry Michalski]] what's the simplest possible example to get going on comments and annotations on the fediverse?
-
what would be the mvp?
- [[mastodon]] server?
- [[mattermost]] channel
- how to [[interlink]]?
-
[[metasj]]
- challenge: take a [[global commons]] that you care aobut, and scope out its potential full extent
-
[[Jerry Michalski]] take a [[pattern language]] that already exist
-
(lists three)
- [[liberating structures]]
- Peeragogy
- Wise Democracy Pattern Language
- chat bots: [[five whys]]
- ...and turn them into [[commons]] shared materials and instrument
- [[pattern languages]] == [[distilled wisdom]]
- from patterns to praxis
- a platform for pattern languages: this was tried on top of [[mediawiki]] [[smw]]
-
[[instrumentalize]] > [[instrument]]?
- Integrate
- Arborize
- what's the verb when mycelium sprouts a mushroom?
- [[fruiting]]
- [[metasj]] tried to put [[ward]] and [[alexander]] in contact to discuss agreeing on a platform
- [[Jerry Michalski]] [[engelbart]] struggled with this
- a strategy to make everybody facilitating facilitations a better facilitator
- leads to a global memory artifact
-
(lists three)
-
[[mathew]] what's the end goal of this envisioning/scoping exercise?
-
[[metasj]] a couple of measures of scope:
- proportion of total human societal interaction affected in a given year
- [[Jerry Michalski]] (ways of measuring global impact)
- empowering people
-
[[metasj]] a couple of measures of scope:
-
[[Jerry Michalski]] [[applause in sign language]]
- used in [[occupy movement]]
- other gestures used: disagree, blocking, speak louder
- [[flancian]] related: [[free, fair and alive]] [[anarchist cybernetics]]
-
[[reading club]] on [[dawn of everything]] in [[ogm]]
- -> [[node club]]
-
[[Mathew Lowry]]
- tools to better capture knowledge produced from conferences/workshops and share it with the world
-
[[Jerry Michalski]] [[idea commons]]
- pastors.com is where a lot of evangelical preachers get what they say on Sundays (!)
- open source sermon central
-
[[flancian]]
- pattern repository, people router
- alternatives
-
[[flancian]]
-
[[counter anti disintermediation]] leading back to distributed systems and liquid democracy
- maybe could yield a metric w.r.t. degree of distrubution of structures of power
-
[[complementary cognitive artifacts]]
- maybe yields a metric w.r.t. resiliency to losing
- composed effects of higher efficiency in cooperation, [[coordination problem]]
-
[[counter anti disintermediation]] leading back to distributed systems and liquid democracy
-
chat
- unschooling, regenerative agriculture, traffic calming...
- ice:bootstrapping: ways to make people vectors for a new approach
- patterning: process for helping people abstract their work to its full potential extent
- which will usually overlap w/ the full-extent of other existing/smaller patterns
- matchmaking: people who could work on the same vectors
- https://www.clearerthinking.org/
-
[[action items]]
-
[[flancian]]
- upload past recording to youtube
-
[[flancian]]
-
[[metasj]] and [[flancian]] 1:1
- [[building bridges]], [[wormholes]]
- [[workshops]] and [[facilitating]] of world building
- [[future casting]] -> [[incepting]]
-
[[wikimedia]] + [[web annotations]]
- [[diego de la hera]]
- there is an extension that makes them worked well together
- how does the community moderate annotations?
- [[flancian]] default: the site sets the default ranking function for annotations. and perhaps some annotations are community owned, wiki like?
2022-06-09
- Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[diego de la hera]], [[flancian]], [[Chris Aldrich]]
-
Inviting others
- [[flancian]] been inviting people already, but would be like to use some kind of policy?
- [[Jerry Michalski]] suggest to use the Mattermost to coordinate; use this space to consider together our goals and attract others like this
-
let's use the list of people in the [[doc]] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RAourQe_MKh0uWomLsS_V5ea3zm30g8paE49X56jIHs/edit
- to brainstorm on who to invite if you want to discuss a priori
- [[flancian]] invited Dan because of his interested in the space + his experience with web standards
-
[[Jerry Michalski]]
- [[web]] https://www.fellowshipofthelink.org/
- who wants admin? :)
-
we could also start groups in social networks, e.g. linkedin
- [[flancian]] [[mastodon]]?
-
got stuck in [[choosing an instance]]
- [[diego de la hera]] mastodon.social could be seen as the default
- (instance delegation could be interesting, web of trust like)
- http://www.unmung.com/mastoview is a tool for helping to choose Mastondon instances
- [[diego de la hera]] lack of defaults as a hindrance to adoption here, in the indieweb as well
-
[[Jerry Michalski]] [[barry schwartz]] https://bra.in/4jXVP2
- [[the tyranny of choice]]
- [[schelling point]]
-
[[Chris Aldrich]] with more choice you usually get increasing complexity
- you are given so much choice it's almost too much (in the indieweb)
- [[Jerry Michalski]] templates, walkthroughs add a lot of value
- [[Chris Aldrich]] you need either a lot of time or people motivated because they're building business
- [[peter kaminski]] introduced [[Jerry Michalski]] to [[obsidian]]
- on straightforward vs powerful tools
-
[[diego de la hera]] on the power of forks
- e.g. [[Chris Aldrich]]'s setup is something we could fork to bootstrap a new user's environment
- people have copy/pasted Chris's website already, full pages at a time :)
- [[flancian]] [[map of the fediverse]]
-
longer term goals / brainstorming / dream sharing
-
[[Jerry Michalski]]
-
series of projects revolving around these issues
- [[open global mind]], started 2y ago
-
[[rel8]]
-
why is it so hard to share, integrate notes -- build arguments?
- -> [[argument mapping]]?
- [[argumentation theory]]
- [[stephen toulmin]] -> [[toulmin model of argument]]
- [[the big fungus]] == https://thebigfungus.org
- interested in the scaffolding, infrastructure to share ideas
-
why is it so hard to share, integrate notes -- build arguments?
-
[[think camp]] funds startups in this space
- "profitable businesses that feed the [[commons]]"
-
read an interesting article today, conservative point of view with good arguments even though some disagreeable premises
-
how do we put this article up to scrutiny and learn from it together?
- -> [[web annotations]]?
-
[[gyuri lajos]]
- [[Jerry Michalski]] let's have a group sync with Gyuri?
- [[Chris Aldrich]] trails are related to [[vannevar bush]]'s
-
how do we put this article up to scrutiny and learn from it together?
-
wishlist for [[fotl]]: how do these parts fit together?
- how do we make it so that our notes provide maximum utility, spread through the big fungus
-
series of projects revolving around these issues
-
[[Chris Aldrich]] would like to focus on how to
- make it all work together
- make the systems be easy to use
- make something that is as simple to understand as facebook?
- I'd like to see [[commonplace books]] that can "talk" to each other.
-
"the [[stream]] flows by too fast"
- turning streams into gardens
- [[neil]] from the Agora has great writing on streams vs gardens, how they relate to each other - https://doubleloop.net/
-
[[Jerry Michalski]]
- [[john borthwick]] at [[betaworks]] has funding for small projects [[think camp]]
-
Watch parties
-
[[connection series]]
- watch these, take notes/diagrams and share/interop
- -> [[books, paintings, movies, ideas that shaped many people's lives]]
- [[dan whaley]] youtube annotations are a side project / hobby
-
[[connection series]]
-
[[diego de la hera]]
-
web annotations were mentioned; thought of two connections
-
[[peter hagen]] -> [[lindylearn]] https://lindylearn.io/ and specifically https://annotations.lindylearn.io/new/
- social platform where you would find what other people are annotating and join the conversation
- provides a discovery layer for what others are reading and thinking about
- [[chrome]] is also tackling annotations
- [[worldbrain]], [[memex]]?
-
it seems like here we want to work more on the level of how to connect different annotation tools at a (federated?) layer
- perhaps what we need is an integration device at this layer, e.g. [[wikilinks]]
-
[[peter hagen]] -> [[lindylearn]] https://lindylearn.io/ and specifically https://annotations.lindylearn.io/new/
-
web annotations were mentioned; thought of two connections
- Timing
- After the event, [[Mathew Lowry]]: https://doc.anagora.org/Kz1qvywQRjq9nZ-ElXlHUg?view
Matterbridge site for group communication: https://chat.collectivesensecommons.org/agora/tips
https://collectivesensecommons.org/
Mathew Lowry mentioned [[Mysilio]]
- https://github.com/mysilio-co
- (https://mysilio.com/) a "thinking tool"/platform that uses [[Solid]] - funded by [[Foundation for the Web]]; has a social media tool and a digital garden
[[David McRaney]] (twitter) has several books:
- [[How Minds Change]] #books/wanttoread/2
- [[You're Not So Smart]] #books/wanttoread/2
- [[You are Now Less Dumb]]
2022-06-02
- Attending: [[Jerry Michalski]], [[diego de la hera]], [[flancian]], [[Chris Aldrich]]
-
Our personal history
- Diego en Córdoba
- Jerry Michalski pasos por sudamérica, ahora en Portland
- Eduardo de Buenos Aires, ahora en Suiza
- Relationships locally and globally
-
Jerry: [[open global mind]] meeting just before
- Send email to sociate@gmail.com to sign up :)
-
([[Chris Aldrich]] joined, introductions)
-
[[Jerry Michalski]]
- [[the brain]]
- [[chris]] any shares in the company?
- not anymore
- do you have backups?
-
occasionally :) but the format is a big bag of [[json]] objects, not bery interoperable
- wishlist: [[open global mind]] platform instead
-
[[diego de la hera]]
- hypothes.is user, contributor as the maintainer of the unofficial extension for firefox; working with [[wikimedia foundation]]
- met Chris through hypothes.is
-
[[Chris Aldrich]]
- background: biomedical and electrical engineer, been on the web since the early 90s
- [[indieweb]] / https://indieweb.org
- [[open web backup]], strong belief in owning your own domain, your own data, your own identity
- done work on genetics, but germane: spent a lot of time in the [[entertainment industry]] as it overlaps with the open web
- massive amount of data
- history, culture as intertwined with knowledge tools
- current focus on wikis and note taking tools
-
[[Jerry Michalski]]
-
[[Jerry Michalski]] wishful thinking for a design in this space
- it should allow all users to view data through their chosen tools
- sometimes you change tools as you shift what you need to do (they are good at different modes of thinking)
-
[[planes]]
-
[[multi plane camera]], [[disney history]]
- similar to layers in photoshop/gimp
- bought https://www.playnz.dev
-
[[multi plane camera]], [[disney history]]
-
[[kumu]] == https://kumu.io
- is it open source?
- [[jupyter notebooks]] are an inspiration
-
https://thebigfungus.org
- [[leaf cutting ants]]
- ([[diego de la hera]] worked with them)
- [[symbiotic relationship]] with the fungus
-
[[diego de la hera]] we mentioned a diversity of tools here:
- closed and open
- wiki like and otherwise
- ...but as long as these platforms provide this data in a documented way, do we need a central tool? wouldn't collaboration emerge even without a central tool?
- [[jerry]] +1 -- the big fungus is a metaphor for the result of this collaboration. But [[playnz]] might be an [[mvp]]/[[demo]] or just an experiment/playground for interoperability.
-
are these tools perhaps already playns?
- they might be, yes.
-
[[Chris Aldrich]] [[progressive enhancement]] is key
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement
- how can we take all these tools and build an architecture that supports progressive enhancement?
- we start with plain text as the base, then you can add things like markdown/html, then you add photos/media
-
[[flancian]] problems and opportunities:
- exploring hub architecture vs full graph integration
- lossiness as you interop through tools, playns
-
complexity of integrations
- [[Chris Aldrich]] pairwise compatibility is a nightmare
-
[[translation as a service]]
- [[pandoc]]
- [[Chris Aldrich]] [[paas]] == [[pandoc as a service]]
- [[markdown as lingua franca]]
-
[[Jerry Michalski]]
- [[mapping tools for thinking]] in [[jerry's brain]]
- also an amazing list of people
- book: [[the extended mind]]
-
interest in the [[crystallization]] of what we know together
- contributing to the same lists -> [[collective action]]
-
[[diego de la hera]] the relationship between these efforts and [[wikimedia]] projects
- [[intermingle]] / preservation of voices
- [[ward cunningham]]! [[fedwiki]]
- Ward's calls
- [[Chris Aldrich]] we should invite [[mark bernstein]], [[tinderbox]]
- [[fellowship of the link]] as it relates to other projects
-
[[diego de la hera]] isn't the web as a whole what we need? :)
- [[html is the lingua franca of our time]]
-
[[web mentions]]
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webmention
- https://brid.gy/
-
[[indieweb]] has examples of this working
- [[acid test]] of interoperability
- [[swat0]] https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/SWAT0
-
search engine for tagged/linked trusted content
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonplace_book
- intimacy gradient
-
[[delicious]]
- #c19 == [[19th century]]
- [[technorati]]
-
[[lists]] we could assemble:
-
people in this space
- the above
- [[tantek Çelik]]
- "how can we build this with as little technology as possible"
- projects in this space (knowledge tools)
- recurrent calls in this space
- possible [[lingua francas]]
-
people in this space
-
[[Chris Aldrich]] "The world lost so much because Vannevar Bush didn't use the word commonplace book in his article As We May Think."
- how can we take open tools like [[logseq]], or semi-open like [[obsidian]], and create a reusable store
- [[blot]] == https://blot.im
- [[granary]] == https://granary.io/ for translating between silo formats as well as feed formats [[rss]], [[atom]], [[h-feed]], [[JSONfeed]], etc.
- https://bra.in/3vGWLa
- https://bra.in/7v2NRe
-
#push [[fellowship of the link]]
- with [[Chris Aldrich]] and [[Jerry Michalski]] and [[Bentley Davis]]
- it was great!
-
#push [[fellowship of the link]]
- [[shared notes across six tools]]
-
[[chris aldrich]]
- on notifications back from the Agora: watching nodes in the Agora
-
#push [[fellowship of the link]]
- Agreed on planning together (share our plans) during this January.
-
#push [[fellowship of the link]]
- remembers asking questions on (forum name missing)
- a maybe nicer/simpler time, but points at potential
-
an [[essay]].
- [[draft]].
- I've been meaning to write this for a good while.
- I sometimes think the second chapter about the Agora in the first [[book]] of [[Flancia]] will be called [[An Agora, or Building Bridges]].
-
See also:
- #pull [[Agora Chapter]]
- #pull [[Beyond Markdown and Git]]
- #pull [[Social Coop Bridge]]
All bridges, it seems to me, start as [[desire paths]] in the sky; like most of the interesting things we find in the space made up of the intelligently-made universe that tends to surround us (what a privilege), they were plans before they materialized.
#Flancia, or [[building bridges]]
-
The heart of the [[Agora]] is a protocol for [[building bridges]].
- #pull [[on building bridges]] [[build bridges]] [[flancia or building bridges]]
- #pull [[agora protocol]] [[free, fair and alive]]
-
#pull [[fellowship of the link]]
- that has lots of actual notes for meetings, these are random chat logs and other items that we factored out for one reason or the other
- (HedgeDoc used to be hitting note size limits, but not anymore).
-
[[names]] for the project that has already started :)
-
[[flancian]] my proposal is, well, you know what I call it :)
-
would love to discuss [[agora protocol]] with you
- is the heart of the [[Agora]]
- it is what you and me define it to be :)
- feedback welcome :)
-
would love to discuss [[agora protocol]] with you
-
[[flancian]] my proposal is, well, you know what I call it :)
-
where are you [[feeds]] and [[gardens]]?
- [[flancian]] note my daily feed shows up as part of https://anagora.org/journals which is an aggregation of daily posts by all users,
- if you tell me about your feeds and gardens I could add them (like everything Agora related, everything is optional always and offered as a token of friendship!)
-
[[mathew lowry]] let's create some distributed map of thinking tools:
- https://chat.collectivesensecommons.org/agora/pl/78gprua18frkpc6shrxabricqo
- #jm https://bra.in/5qeDMg
-
#jm [[spider charts]]
- looks like a [[polar chart]]
- what are the axes? visualization, openness, artificial intelligence, etc. ML: also the different notetaking techniques CJA: What are the building blocks and affordances they provide so one can have a progressively improved/complex experience
- See start of this at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hY2V5NoSS713R2wzcjBE2q5KZIlfMOPFtL9g6Gaop_o/edit#gid=0
- https://chat.collectivesensecommons.org/agora/pl/78gprua18frkpc6shrxabricqo
-
solving for [[sustainability]] / [[viability]] of a healthy knowledge ecosystem
- funding, donations between readers and writers
-
nested conversations, how to solve for:
- [[communities]]
-
[[startups]] / companies
- [[jerry michalski]] camp
-
People we should invite to join?
- invite [[indieweb people]]
- re-invite [[dan whaley]]
AIs ~ [[action items]]
- AI(flancian): post about [[adversarial interoperability]] in [[ogm]]
- AI(flancian): add the following to the Agora as one of the search "providers" :)
- sync about approach / instructions for [[betaworks]] [[2022-08-16]] event
- AI(jerry michalski): give access to github repo?
-
Create a survey about uses of tools for thought and note taking?
- (discussed [[2022-08-11]])
Chat log
Jerry Michalski says: https://flowimmersive.com/tricast Fellow Jitster says: (note for later: Obs 27 has issues) Jerry Michalski says: https://doc.anagora.org/fellowship-of-the-link Jerry Michalski says:the book in progress: https://personalknowledgegraphs.com/#/page/Personal%20Knowledge%20Graphs mathew says:Shipping containers for thoughts https://anagora.org/ramon-llull Jerry Michalski says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrad_Gessner Chris Aldrich says:You want this reference Mathew: Lima, Manuel. The Book of Trees: Visualizing Branches of Knowledge, 2014. https://papress.com/products/the-book-of-trees-visualizing-branches-of-knowledge mathew says:👍 Chris Aldrich says:Some additional names for your history of knowledge list: Aristotle, Porphyry, Isidore of Seville, Lambert of Saint-Omer, R. Llull, Joachim of Fiore, F. Bacon, C. Linnaeus, R. Descartes, E. Haeckel, Thomas Harrison, Leibnitz, Beatrice Webb Jerry Michalski says: https://wiki.rel8.dev/rel8_pioneers
Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says: https://www.rel8.dev/
20:02 me says:(feel free to queue topics in https://doc.anagora.org/fellowship-of-the-link?edit ) 20:02 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:underlay and interlay projects Jerry Michalski says:Sam Klein 20:13 me says: https://doc.anagora.org/fellowship-of-the-link?edit
20:14 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says: https://mathewlowry.medium.com/from-personal-to-social-knowledge-graphs-a-vision-statement-draft-fc86ef4f7022
Jerry Michalski says: https://indieweb.org/Webmention
Jerry Michalski says: http://microformats.org/
Jerry Michalski says: https://blot.im/
20:34 me says:nice: https://github.com/davidmerfield/blot
me says:that exists 20:36 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:yes, I just spent some time discovering who created Blot. he hides well 20:37 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:The design and UI portions of this are definitely paramount. 20:37 mathew mathew says: https://www.otherlife.co/pkm/
20:38 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says: https://blot.im/
20:38 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says: https://www.otherlife.co/pkm/
Jerry Michalski says: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinmatthewmurphy/
20:38 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:The better link for that with some commentary on those who are in the note taking space: https://via.hypothes.is/https://www.otherlife.co/pkm/
20:39 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:nuggets! 20:39 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:Andy Matuschak 20:39 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:nuggets, narratives and points of view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmId2x6JSQE&feature=related
20:39 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:Mathew, you should also take a look at Ward Cunningham's FedWiki spaces which are very similar to Andy's notes. Chris Aldrich says:Ward's system has a set up with those small ideas linked within a broader wiki and he's got a programatic "Markov Monkey" that traverses all these nodes on the linked graph. 20:41 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:that friendly giant vampire squid Jerry Michalski says:and I do think vampire squids have gotten a bad rap... 20:42 ~SJ ~SJ says:😃 20:42 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:FedWiki, Cult of Roam, Zettelkasten, Brain.... 20:43 me says:they should all be able to contribute to the Commons 😃 20:43 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:this is modern literacy Jerry Michalski says:how do we get everyone working/thinking this way? 20:46 mathew mathew says:FWIW, the myhub curation bookmarklet is "default publish", not "save draft". 20:47 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:FriendFeed! 20:47 mathew mathew says:😃 20:47 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:cash HC economy Jerry Michalski says:oh right! the question we asked earlier! 😃 Jerry Michalski says:what is your inbound stream? defining that Jerry Michalski says:from all sources 20:49 me says:like an [[agora view]] 20:49 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:easy to curate 20:49 mathew mathew says: https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*FbdJHEnIedP3xTjNO70JUA.png
20:49 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:I want the [[agora as a service]] so I can have my own, but with out the admin tax and overhead. 20:49 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:Knowledge Navigator's assistants 20:51 mathew mathew says:So do we need to be building tools for Adversarial Interoperability 20:52 me says:+1 me says:there's two possible assistants mentioned in the Agora currently that I know of: [[socrates]] (a teacher) and [[robofriend]] (a maintainer) 20:53 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:nice! Jerry Michalski says: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interoperability
20:55 me says:"having a somewhere" me says:knowledge contexts 20:55 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says: https://www.thebigfungus.org/
Jerry Michalski says:that's one of my wheres; the other is my Brain Jerry Michalski says:intimacy gradient Jerry Michalski says:maps to who gets to see what Jerry Michalski says:link to the piece, Chris? Jerry Michalski says: https://indieweb.org/Microsub
Jerry Michalski says:View-Master Jerry Michalski says:HMW really use power tools well? Jerry Michalski says:composability Jerry Michalski says:bespoke vs off the shelf Jerry Michalski says: https://micro.blog/
21:03 me says:what I'd like to do is fund services where you can pay for others as well me says:as in, you pay $20 for micro.blog and that way three other people don't have to pay 21:05 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:nice Jerry Michalski says:pay it forward Jerry Michalski says: https://notes.andymatuschak.org/z2QvtE9w5zs49x7WUeG8Ut1vywHDLiG2Wkm9p
21:06 me says:(need to go in about five minutes) 21:08 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says: https://indieweb.org/social_reader
Chris Aldrich says: https://indieweb.org/Microsub
Chris Aldrich says:For the [[adversarial interoperability]] fans: https://granary.io/
Chris Aldrich says:Here's that Webmention notification on my site from Andy's: https://boffosocko.com/2021/07/03/differentiating-online-variations-of-the-commonplace-book-digital-gardens-wikis-zettlekasten-waste-books-florilegia-and-second-brains/#comment-351147
Chris Aldrich says: https://indieweb.org/Micro.blog
21:12 mathew mathew says:that's absolutely the mysilio business model mathew says:(thinking tool on Solid pods) 21:13 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:this is, after all, the FoTL 21:14 mathew mathew says:😃 21:14 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:it's links all the way down 21:14 mathew mathew says:link s primary, the rest is context 21:14 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:This post has a short video that gives an overview of how social readers and webmention work in conjunction with one's website using small building blocks loosely joined: https://boffosocko.com/2021/04/26/a-twitter-of-our-own-at-oerxdomains-2021-conference/
21:15 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:mycelial interconnections Jerry Michalski says:yes! 21:15 me says:a [[fungus view]]? me says:or a personalized [[portal]]
https://doc.anagora.org/fellowship-of-the-link?edit
19:05 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says: https://chat.collectivesensecommons.org/agora/channels/ogm-fellowship-of-the-link
Jerry Michalski says: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RAourQe_MKh0uWomLsS_V5ea3zm30g8paE49X56jIHs/edit
Jerry Michalski says: https://www.fellowshipofthelink.org/
19:12 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says: christopherjaldrich@gmail.com is probably a good email address for that 19:13 Diego Diego says: delahera@gmail.com
19:14 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says: https://bra.in/4jXVP2
19:20 me says:that's [[rel8]]? 19:31 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:Does The Brain have a feed coming out of it to be able to find recent things someone else has put into it? 19:33 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:nyet. I asked Harlan for an RSS feed 15 years ago. still doesn't have one Jerry Michalski says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Toulmin#The_Toulmin_model_of_argument
Jerry Michalski says:Instathink? 19:40 me says:pixelfed 😃 plus mastodon with annotations 19:40 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:oh! one more project to describe: Think Camp 19:40 me says:and pixelfed and mastodon interop 😉 19:40 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:watch parties Jerry Michalski says:we're drowning in the infotorrent Jerry Michalski says:turning streams into gardens Jerry Michalski says: https://docdrop.org/video/XnoN7mCu9Yg/
Jerry Michalski says: https://bra.in/5pxdW6
19:48 Diego Diego says:lindylearn 19:49 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says: https://lindylearn.io/blogs ?? 19:50 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:Jerry, closer to this: https://annotations.lindylearn.io/new/
19:51 me says: https://lindylearn.substack.com/ has some background 19:51 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:annotation tools https://bra.in/6qaBmj
Jerry Michalski says:reminder: I playfully bought this domain for these projects: https://www.playnz.dev/
Jerry Michalski says:also 😃 Jerry Michalski says:re the planes that Diego is describing Jerry Michalski says:I also like that the Big Fungus indirectly points to psilocybin... 19:55 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:The indieweb has explored the idea of mushrooms and a mycelium network Chris Aldrich says:which is a similar sort of analogy to what we're discussing 19:56 Diego Diego says:what is the problem of how to resolve them? 19:56 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:is this about content addressability? Jerry Michalski says:love that, Chris Jerry Michalski says:is Tantek still in the middle of the indieweb? Jerry Michalski says:if so, he's an old acquaintance. we can invite him in 19:58 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:Tantek is definitely in the center and on a daily basis. 19:58 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:schweet!
Chat and Polls Chat Polls Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:Ida Josefiina 20:05 Marc-Antoine Parent Marc-Antoine Parent says:that's a lot of us 😃 20:05 Peter Kaminski Peter Kaminski says: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/ida-josefiina-40824a75
Peter Kaminski says:"X-Risk" https://mitpress.mit.edu/9781913029845/x-risk/
20:06 Marc-Antoine Parent Marc-Antoine Parent says: https://www.supermind.design/database
20:07 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:Supermind in my Brain: https://bra.in/4qEXDK
20:07 Peter Kaminski Peter Kaminski says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_strength_and_readability_report
Peter Kaminski says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apgar_score (1952) 20:10 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:Apgar Score (1952 Appearance, Pulse, Grimace, Activity, Respiration) 20:10 Peter Kaminski Peter Kaminski says: https://eastgate.com/Tinderbox/
20:10 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinderbox_(application_software)
Jerry Michalski says:Mark Bernstein Jerry Michalski says:who wrote this in 1988: http://www.eastgate.com/garden/Enter.html ! 20:11 Peter Kaminski Peter Kaminski says: http://www.eastgate.com/storyspace/index.html
20:14 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storyspace
20:14 Peter Kaminski Peter Kaminski says:"Familiar hypertext tools support calligraphic hypertext, hypertext that begins without links and lets the writer link things that should be connected. Storyspace 3 adds sculptural hypertext tools as well. Sculptural hypertext begins with densely linked bundles like decks of cards, from which the reader might select pages in any sequence. But Storyspace hypertexts aren’t just random: writers can remove links and enforce constraints so the hypertext organizes itself. Sculptural hypertext encourages painterly narrative in which the writer controls what she knows to be necessary while relaxing control over the reader when control might not be needed." 20:14 Fellow Jitster Fellow Jitster says:(taking notes in https://doc.anagora.org/fellowship-of-the-link , but I started late) 20:18 Marc-Antoine Parent Marc-Antoine Parent says: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AY6y-uHUQE82zfLgwZLk29VPTaI1P5AMo6HT8zz1WDU/edit
20:18 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:this is the spreadsheet where we tested the radar chart, with some dimensions: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hY2V5NoSS713R2wzcjBE2q5KZIlfMOPFtL9g6Gaop_o/edit#gid=0
20:19 Peter Kaminski Peter Kaminski says:Here is our project planning/coordination wiki (short-term URL, obviously): "Project plan - Mapping the thinking tool landscape with collective intelligence" https://dainty-sable-264aa3.netlify.app/project/project_plan
20:19 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:Flancian is on a roller coaster! 20:20 me says:haha, joined from the office today so away from my better tested equipment 😉 20:20 Peter Kaminski Peter Kaminski says: https://www.scrintal.com/
20:22 jackpark jackpark says: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m56SHPGgeFfB_3ToO9-VB9Yu266wtS5-9xlwaFeJ68k/edit?usp=sharing is a link to a user's manual for LiteNet which is a topic map-based pkm - I don't push it because it needs more work. jackpark says:scrintal just sent me an invite to join 20:23 Marc-Antoine Parent Marc-Antoine Parent says: https://lu.ma/tftrocks-oct22
20:23 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:T4T interop 20:25 jackpark jackpark says:By way of the superminds youtube, discovered this https://www.gyanai.com/
20:26 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:Gyan founder is Joy Dasgupta Jerry Michalski says:one version of Marc-Antoine explaining HyperKnowledge: https://hyperknowledge.org/HyperKnowledge.mp4
20:29 jackpark jackpark says: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joy-dasgupta-67722833/
20:29 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:Who needs word police when we can go "full Humpty Dumpty": "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more or less."—H. Dumpty (via Lewis Carroll) 20:29 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:Calvinball for words! 20:29 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says: https://boffosocko.com/2011/08/16/meaning-according-to-humpty-dumpty/
20:30 Peter Kaminski Peter Kaminski says:non sequitur, Nick Milo has had two really good PKM / LYT conferences this year (consider getting on one of his mailing lists to hear about more). The conferences are free and have recordings. Peter Kaminski says: https://www.linkingyourthinking.com/conference
Peter Kaminski says: https://www.linkingyourthinking.com/idea-exchange-conference
20:30 jackpark jackpark says: https://twitter.com/the_LYT_way
20:33 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:For [[deep backlinks]], [[Kevin Marks]] has some interesting/useful prior art that is working in a few places on the web: https://indieweb.org/fragmention
20:39 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:I kept misreading it as "fragmentation" it's frag mention! Jerry Michalski says:tx, Chris Jerry Michalski says:superforecasters 😃 Jerry Michalski says:rating assertions over time for their accuracy Jerry Michalski says:including the cost of lives lost Jerry Michalski says:actuarial? Jerry Michalski says:heresy! hashtags are not enough 20:50 me says:lexon 20:59 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says: http://lexon.tech/
20:59 Marc-Antoine Parent Marc-Antoine Parent says: http://www.lexon.tech/
20:59 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:more precise, hidden speech Jerry Michalski says:codes Jerry Michalski says:coded speech Jerry Michalski says:what's the right term for coded speech? I'm not finding the right things Jerry Michalski says:Coded Language? 21:04 Marc-Antoine Parent Marc-Antoine Parent says:how is it different from dog whistle? 21:04 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:dog whistle is a type of this more general term Jerry Michalski says:the recording stopped spontaneously at the hour. I have a file w the recording here. but no notice, etc. 😦 21:07 Chris Aldrich Chris Aldrich says:there's also [[code switching]] which is a cultural identity flavor of this 21:08 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:well, that didn't work. it stopped on its own, almost immediately Jerry Michalski says:guess we can't record >60 mins Jerry Michalski says:or maybe it takes two different users Jerry Michalski says:and my Brain! and my Brain! 21:10 me says:I'm working on ogm.agor.ai 😉 21:10 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:I get site can't be reached there 21:11 me says:it's not up yet ,sorry -- but I do have agor.ai , the idea is to run different agoras in different subdomains 21:11 Jerry Michalski Jerry Michalski says:aaah 21:11 Type a message
Welcome to [[FOTL]] threads!
This document is meant to capture high level discussion [[threads]] we want to pursue in the [[fellowship of the link]] meetings.
Usually threads will be seeded in live discussion and transported here from [[fellowship of the link]] or [[fotl]] meeting minutes.
Schemas
- from [[2022-10-26]]
Integration
-
from [[2022-10-26]]
-
[[flancian]] have been meaning to collect a list of repositories which we would like integrate into a shared construct (agora wink wink) -- do you have any?
-
[[peter kaminski]] massive wiki is agnostic w.r.t. versioning and sharing models (or tries to be)
- for git, [[massive wiki]] can have submodules
- [[massive wiki builder]] will build
-
do you have note repositories of your own, personal or otherwise?
- [[peter kaminski]] have one but not currently shareable :)
-
AI: suggest we keep discussing this in future instances
- [[sister sites]], sister pages
- twin pages
- interwiki
- web rings :)
- wiki [[collaboration primitives]]
-
Instant wikilinks / cascading wikisheets: implicit interwiki resolution (a la https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/InstantCommons) :: make the local .cws legible so you can see the order in which your current interface looks for matching nodes in choosing the default interwiki
- try variation that chooses cascade order based on length/quality of target node
- try interface variation that shows top N options in asymmetric list/pie
-
[[fedwiki]] is brilliant but the feeling of the room is that we don't fully understand it
- is there people building any kind of business providing fedwiki widely/easily?
- https://byname.wiki.conversence.com
- sj: update vocab to distinguish meki from wiki
-
[[peter kaminski]] massive wiki is agnostic w.r.t. versioning and sharing models (or tries to be)
-
[[flancian]] have been meaning to collect a list of repositories which we would like integrate into a shared construct (agora wink wink) -- do you have any?
I run a lightweight implementation of Go Links on the /go/ URL space. Basically anything under https://flancia.org/go/ is a redirect to a URL somewhere on the internet. Think of it as open, lightweight social bookmarking.
The Go Links idea is very popular in many companies. It originated at Google. I think it might catch on in the wider internet as well.
If you'd like to implement Go Links on your domain, there's two ways I could currently recommend. Read on.
Use HTTP redirects.
The geekier way. Simplest and quickest to set up if you like stuff like writing your own Apache/Nginx configs. Basically just set up redirects in /go/, done.
TODO: link my live nginx configuration/redirect list?
Use Trotto Go Links.
Go
-
An [[action]].
- A [[go link]] is a [[canonical result]] for a [[search query]].
- A [[go link]] is a [[url]] which is [[relevant]] for the task at hand.
- If the [[agora]] sees a block in your notes that links to the 'go' node followed by a [[URL]], as per the example below, it will redirect users to the URL when they invoke the action.
- See also: [[agora-go-links-integration]].
- To browse every [[go link]] in the [[agora]], see [[backlinks]] below.
-
[[go]] flancia.org/mine/go-links
- The above block results in the Agora creating a [[go link]] for the node id in which it is in ('go'), redirecting to the URL that appears after the action.
- Concretely, if you visit anagora.org/go/go you will be redirected to flancia.org/mine/go-links.
- This, I believe, can be a sufficient substrate for implementing [[social bookmarking]] and [[social search]].
- [[twitter]] https://twitter.com/flancian/status/1330572022146019328 .
go
- an [[ancient game]]
- the [[golang]] programming language
- #pull [[samuel klein]] [[jerry michalski]] [[eduardo ivanec]]
-
[[2022-05-19]]
-
[[jerry michalski]]
- Grew up in [[Lima]] and then [[Buenos Aires]]!
- Buenos Aires in the 1960s!
- The status of [[South America]] and [[Africa]].
-
The role of the [[catholic church]] in the problems of the continent.
- [[liberation theology]]
- [[curas tercermundistas]]
- [[bergoglio]]
-
[[sj]]
- brother in [[Santiago]] :) (not my brother)
- -> [[jerry's brain]] [[cybersyn]] [[salvador allende]]
-
[[jerry michalski]]
-
how do we frame this conversation?
- we have a lot of things we could talk about, what's a nice useful way to start this conversation?
-
[[sj]]
- [[wikilinks everywhere]]
- [[fellowship]]
- [[stress testing new technology]] in this space
-
[[wikilinks everywhere]]
-
[[jerry]] how we handle links seems very powerful
- "how can I be the [[chuck yeager]] of a the new platform"
- would love to get out of the current tool into something freer
-
[[500000]] nodes, [[1000000]] links
- [[flancian]] FYI the Agora is small but has 1:4 linking ratio currently
- "linking freely but not promiscuously helps find things later"
-
[[note taking]] vs [[thebrain]]
- note taking does happen in the brain
- but Jerry doesn't actually use the notes field per se
-
it's not even outliner mode: it's an actual graph that Jerry navigates dynamically
- what about the time dimension?
- [[thebrain]] timestamps everything, but it's not really retrievable via an API
- wish: interop between tools that support every useful workflow
-
#push [[open global mind]] group, every Thu there is a check in call, as an example of taking notes here
-
[[jerry]] how we handle links seems very powerful
-
[[thebrain]]
- Jerry's their largest user.
- Has never paid for it.
-
Freeing Jerry's Brain
- what else might we do with the structure that it's easy for him to capture / has been captured?
- Exploring migration to other platforms.
- Asked for an [[rss]] feed twenty years ago (!)
- No other tool seems to be up to the task of migrating to it.
- Export is a [[json]] dump
-
Would love to offer his brain to others to take a snapshot and start building on it.
-
[[sj]] [[huggingmind]]?
- [[content hash]] based tools have failed so far
-
if you get into [[decentralized sharing]], there are:
- [[named based models]]
-
[[content hash models]]
- no clustering, no updates, need to solve equivalence and relationships in a different level (ipfs has ipdns)
-
both of these are missing the higher level point: what humans want to share is [[concepts]]
- "you want the latest [[human genome]]"
-
"you want to find a map of [[charging stations]]"
- it'd make sense to compose canonical lists at different levels (city, region, global)
- [[coordination problem]]
- [[hashtags]] as an example of grassroot technology
-
[[wikilinks]] as acceptable search queries for whatever you're trying to store
- [[metasj]] [[chatoyancy]]
-
[[query based event addressing]]
- [[search engine company]] experimented with crowdsourced query editing
- Jerry: "do you have any other [[vector]] into it"
-
[[sj]] [[huggingmind]]?
-
[[flancian]] have you done a [[mindmeld]] with someone else?
- Jerry knows one more advanced user, but [[thebrain]] doesn't offer any way to do this
- the exported bag of [[json]] objects is available, people are interested
- [[free jerry's brain]] group, meets Mondays at 1PM Pacific, part of [[open global mind]]
- also [[mattermost]] has a channel dedicated to it
- [[peter kaminski]]
- where to chat?
-
[[zsolt]] did a [[excalidraw]] + [[obsidian]] mashup
- "https://www.linkedin.com/in/zsolt-viczian/ TheBrain-like graph-based navigation in Obsidian with Excalidraw, Dataview, and Hover Editor (V2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plYobK-VufM"
- [[metasj]]: [[bretv]] is great and would be a good addition to these conversations
- a healthy way forward is to have a series of design sessions for the interop ecosystem, identify components, identify the pieces that will make it easy for others to adopt the system and get value from it
- [[jerry]] [[Rel8]] Use Cases: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWkwOefBPZY
- Jerry: "sharing our notes to fix civilization"
-
Replacing [[powerpoint]] with better storytelling tool
- [[prezi]] was great and then regressed :(
- there's an opportunity in this space
- [[powerpoint killers]][
- [[samuel]] [[h5p]]
-
[[jerry]]
- #push [[dxos]]
- [[codex editor]] == [[codex]] in the Agora
-
questions:
- chat platform: [[mattermost]] or something else?
-
[[open]] by default or not?
- open
-
build conceptual outline
- [[google doc]]?
- [[node]] it?
- think about [[diversity]]
- meet again in 1w/2w? on https://meet.jit.si/fotl
-
start an [[awesome foundation]] chapter?
- [[wikimedia]] has a grants program for experiments, but they are grant-like and larger
- [[public bounties]]?
- [[building bridges]]
- public document at doc.anagora.org/fellowship-of-the-link
- video call at meet.jit.si/fellowship-of-the-link
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types
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typora
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